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    Third Annual Cardiovascular Interventions: Head-to-Toe Meeting: Napa Valley, CA
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    Super Tech Course for CSI (Diamondback): Hands-on, presented by Orlando Marrero, RCIS, MBA, Winter Haven Hospital, FL
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    Jul 19,2010
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    Jul 23,2010
    Hawaii 2010: Principles and Perspectives in Interventional Cardiology
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New Zealand and US Cath Labs: What does socialized interventional cardiology look like?


Blog By: Jason Money RN RCIS

Jason Money RN RCIS's picture

Jason Money, RN, RCIS
Arkansas, US, and Bay of Plenty, New Zealand


When I first accepted a job in an interventional cath lab in New Zealand (NZ), I had no idea what to expect. I arrived in Auckland in May 1999 to work at Ascot Angiography, a private, hospital-based cath lab. My fears of “third world” healthcare were very quickly allayed when I saw the gleaming new Ascot Hospital. It is still the most luxurious hospital I have ever worked in, with the feel of an office building, rather than a hospital.

I have lived and worked in NZ most of the last 12 years. My wife and I returned for two years to work in cath labs and radiology departments in California and Florida. Other than my wife having to adapt to the cross-training of the labs in which we worked, there was no step-up needed in nursing skills from NZ to America. Our NZ skills were actually more advanced in some areas, especially regarding radial access and exposure to some equipment in NZ before its release in America. I have been fortunate to work with some of the world’s leading interventional cardiologists in NZ. These are physicians who are often on the expert panels of conferences like TCT.

Still, I have found cath labs everywhere are similar in many ways. Turnaround times need to be quick, add-on cases are always around the corner; basically, never enough time in the day. In NZ, individual roles are more soundly defined. Nurses scrub and circulate cases, radiographers operate the x-ray, and traditionally, a physiologist does the hemodynamics (a position similar to a CVT/RCIS, but with BA and masters-level university training). There is very little cross-training; however, radiographers and nurses do tend to take on the hemodynamics in the tight fiscal climate of the “private” cath labs.

NZ has two basic healthcare systems:

Private: Care paid for by you or your insurance.

Advantages: • Choose your doctor
• Very little waiting time


Disadvantages:• It costs money
• Limited services may mean your treatment still needs to come from the public sector


Public: Care that is free* to any New Zealand citizen or legal resident

Advantages:• It’s free (hospital care is free — GP visits may cost $30.00)
• Some of the world’s best doctors work in the public system
• You have a team consisting of a house officer (intern), registrar (resident) and consultant caring for you.

Disadvantages:• You don’t necessarily choose your doctor
• You may become a number and do need to be proactive in your care.

*No, there is no such thing a “free.” There are taxes and levies that help to support the “free” system, but all in all, I pay the same or less in all taxes than I did living in Arkansas up till 1999 and get “free” healthcare. Is it better than the American system? Yes and no. With NZ’s population of only 4 million people, it’s hard to directly compare systems overall.

There are waiting lists for exams and procedures, but all acute surgeries are done as you would expect. Urgent surgeries are done in short time as well. It is the non-acute surgeries that can take a while. It is possible that you could have a NSTEMI, fail a treadmill, get a cath, find a lesion needing stenting, and then, if you stay in hospital, it could take a week to get PCI (if you have to be referred to a tertiary institute for PCI) or if you are deemed fit for discharge, it could take months (because you are “stable” on medications). CABG could take the same length of time. Acute things take priority and thus, the more “stable” you are, the less priority you have. Things like hip replacements can take up to a year if you are deemed low priority.

The physical state of the buildings may be very old and poorly maintained, depending on the last upgrade. Most hospitals have large rooms that may have up to four patients per area. Having said that, I have also worked in some rough places in the America as well.

I found the stability of the patients to initially be very impressive. They could have horrible disease, but evidence no acute symptoms. I was perplexed, as most were outpatients and looked like they had acute disease — so where were their symptoms? I then learned how good beta blockers can be at stabilizing patients. The scenario is basically as follows: you have some chest pain, see a GP who works you up for ACS. If you do not have ACS, then the process is: aspirin, metoprolol, statin, GTN spray, referral to a cardiologist, treadmill (or appropriate DX test), an assessment of how well the medications are controlling your symptoms, cath or CTCA, and intervention/surgery or medical management. This is a generic example, but the most common path taken. On paper, this is often how it is meant to work in the U.S. as well; however, in my experience we often jump to the cardiac cath, for better or worse. The same occular stenotic reflex (if I see a lesion, I must fix it) affects many interventionalists in NZ, especially private.

During my time in NZ, I have been exposed to a more conservative model of managing CAD than in the U.S. Patient management that shocked me at the time has since been shown to be backed up by sound studies. Such studies just aren’t there for some of the treatments I thought, from my experience in the U.S., were standard of care in 1999.

In general, the public system tends to be more conservative than private. I will let you form your own opinion on “cost saving” by the public system versus “monetary compensation per procedure” per private system on driving decisions. It should be noted that even though NZ interventionalists are very similar creatures to those in the U.S., they still tend to be more conservative. The public system often sends people to PCI as an alternate treatment, based on waiting lists for surgery.

I currently work in a radiology department, where a very interesting practice takes place regarding the requesting of imaging procedures. All procedures must be approved by a radiologist and then deemed as necessary or not. The American locum ED physicians have a hard time with this, as they actually have to come and present their case for justification to the radiologist and may actually be told no. This is a safety check regarding radiation exposure (something the U.S. will be dealing with very soon, if the media is a gauge) as well as a cost containment issue. Both are a check on reducing unnecessary scans. The traditional question presented to the requesting physician is, “How will this scan affect your management of the patient?”

After experiencing both NZ and U.S. systems of care, my personal opinion is that medical care is only as good as the doctor and team looking after you, as long as they have resources available.

Oh, and is New Zealand as beautiful as they say? Yes, actually — more.

Posted by Anonymous on March 10, 2010 at 11:03 pm

great article, jason.
since we last worked together in Florida i have been traveling as an RCIS and worked with cardiac interventionalists that run the gamut from ultra conservative to those who really don't care what a DES stent really costs to the patient and our healthcare system. i pray the correct happy medium can be achieved here in the US because i love what we do and want to continue providing the well supplied, experienced quality care we are accustomed to. especially, if i needed too.
traveling RCIS
corspec@me.com

Posted by Anonymous on March 12, 2010 at 11:03 am

Very interesting and informative Jason. Not sure if you remember me. I worked with you for a short time at Alta Bates Medical Center, Summit Campus, in Oakland, CA. I am now in the cath lab at the Cleveland Clinic. Your article makes me want to experience the practice of Nursing in another country. Glad to see you are still using your experience and talent in the field of cardiovascular nursing. Shanna McHugh

Posted by Anonymous on March 29, 2010 at 2:03 pm

Nice article. What's a nice boy from Arkansas doing raising a family in NZ? And are you a bonafide Kiwi now? Or is that like calling San Francisco "'Frisco"?

Chip Longley

Posted by Anonymous on May 12, 2010 at 4:05 pm

Wow, it is so nice hearing updates from some of my "friends met along the road". Chip, Shanna and "Travelling RCIS..I know who you are". Thank you for reading the blog and commenting. Good luck at cleveland clinic Shanna I am sure you are as committed as ever to learning. Chip, I am pretty close to a kiwi as the "arkansas boy" now has a kiwi wife and son. I think the views of "travelling RCIS" are very common in the industry and hope that finacial incentive will oneday be removed from decision making. I do recognize this will not be an easy transition for anyone.

Posted by Anonymous on August 2, 2010 at 5:08 am

Hi Jason, your name was given to me by Rebecca Jackson. She said that you had worked with her some time ago. I would like to contact you regarding the work you did with Rebecca. Also she is talking about coming out here to teach perhaps if she has interest. Contact me at ljk.raglan@xtra.co.nz

Posted by dbelle on August 5, 2010 at 10:08 am

Nice article, its always good to hear about int'l experiences. According to the difference of cathlab workflow between NZ and the US which you mentioned, I'm not sure that more specialized system would be more effective in a lot of labs and their context. Pretty hectic labs exist, where everyone has to be more versatile in their positions. Dora, goldenrule.com

Posted by Anonymous on August 26, 2010 at 10:08 am

Hello Jason, my name is Courtney and I've been a CVT in the States for 6 years now. I was just wondering how you first got a job in NZ?? I tried a few years ago, and was told that travel assignments given to foreign worker were almost non-existent. I fell in love with NZ a long time ago, and would love to have a half-and-half job, US and NZ. Have you met anyone with this type of employment?? My email is crbfilipiak@yahoo.com. I would love to hear how I could gain entry into NZ professionally.

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